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Anon
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Disc brakes for CF1

If any member has experience of converting a facelift model CF 1 (1983) to front disc brakes I would be grateful to know whether it is worth it, what is involved and the rough DIY cost. Many thanks

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Thu 14 Jul 2011 @ 11:22 Edit this messageQuote this messagePMQuote this message
Anon
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Simplest way for short wheelbase models is to fit CF2 stub axles with caliper mounting complete with hubs, discs and calipers. Whether it's worth it depends on how much the parts can be obtained for.

You may also have to fit a delay valve on the front hydraulic system to prevent front wheel lock-up before the rear.

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Thu 14 Jul 2011 @ 12:24 Edit this messageQuote this messagePMQuote this message
Anon
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brakes

where are the delay vaves fitted are they at the fonr or rear.
Fri 15 Jul 2011 @ 05:55 Edit this messageQuote this messagePMQuote this message
Anon
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Delay valve is on the front system &, like the LDV & Transit with Lockheed brakes, is fitted near the master cylinder.

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Fri 15 Jul 2011 @ 09:31 Edit this messageQuote this messagePMQuote this message
Anon
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Thanks very much for the advice. I will price up the components at a good breakers
Sun 17 Jul 2011 @ 13:39 Edit this messageQuote this messagePMQuote this message
Anon
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Remember you will need track rod ends as well as the later Beddys had a different size taper on them.

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Sun 17 Jul 2011 @ 14:20 Edit this messageQuote this messagePMQuote this message
Anon
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Thanks for that Gethin - I did not know. Others may be interested that the rough cost of used parts via Adrian Bailey is £250 - but by the time you've had calipers reconditioned and new discs, the bill climbs to about £400+, without any fitting costs. Might be cheaper to invest in gym membership so I can stamp on the drum brakes even harder !

Cheers
Thu 21 Jul 2011 @ 08:42 Edit this messageQuote this messagePMQuote this message
Anon
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Was that sending off the callipers or doing it yourself? been thinking of doing this but couldn't see any parts on flee bay. Oh all the things you can do to these vans, its like big boy maccano now off to rob the post office
Tue 17 Jul 2012 @ 13:28 Edit this messageQuote this messagePMQuote this message
Anon
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After a very scary descent off the North Yorks Moors I am in the process of rebuilding some discs and hubs with the intention of replacing the drum brakes, but the cost is climbing. I got hold of a very rusty front suspension complete and this has now been stripped.
Getting hold of CF2 discs is also very difficult unless you go to http://bedford-ersatzteile.de/index.php?a=191&lang=eng and pay 75 Euros apiece!! Plus postage.

I am hoping my plan is going to work and it is to use Transit discs which have been gently machined to fit the CF hub. (The Transit bore is 78.5 and the CF is 80).
The threads on the Transit discs also need machining to allow the Torx bolts to go through and bolt onto the CF hub. The calipers will need a small spacer (about 10mm) and longer HT bolts. The upgrade I am considering (pending another mock up) is to use Land Rover Defender 4 pot calipers. I have a feeling there may be quite a long brake pedal travel but someone has fitted LDV 200 calipers on here before and they are the same as the Defender.

I will post some pictures when the parts come back from the machine shop.

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Tue 17 Jul 2012 @ 22:21 Edit this messageQuote this messagePMQuote this message
Anon
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Looking forward to your progress reports nick. Hope it goes well
Wed 18 Jul 2012 @ 12:22 Edit this messageQuote this messagePMQuote this message
Anon
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The supply of new CF discs seems to be the fly in the ointment. That price that NickG38 linked to seems OK for New Bedford Discs. ABC quoted me £118 +VAT + P&P for a usable second hand pair.

I bought a set of Transit discs off ebay with a view to converting. I can't remember the year in question, but they are the not the Mk1 or 2 that I thought I was buying. They are flat & fat. It doesn't fit in the calliper (not with new pads anyway) and the bolts holding the calliper & steering arm to the upright would need to be replace with counter sunk 3 1/4 in long, 1/2 inch 12.9 grade set screws - which it would appear have a good deal in common with rocking horse do-do.

It looks like the MK1 & MK2 discs are the same so I think these are right ones to start with http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MINTEX-MDC177-FRONT-BRAKE-DISCS-Ford-Transit-MK2-2-0-Van-78-86-/110874887086?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item19d0a883ae#ht_2819wt_1180

Upon speaking the engineer he suggested it was critical that hole the disc is held concentric on the hub so I was going to have him machine the 1.25mm off the hub for a snug fit in the disc. Ideally I want do the mods so a new transit disc will bolt strait on without mods to the following set so was going to have the holes in the hub counterbored to accommodate longer counter sunk HT bolts threading into the disc and space the disc off the back of the hub rather than space the calliper out mainly due to potential issues with the calliper clearing the wheel but I have not checked. Counter boring the holes in the disc & opening the bore as suggested would be easier but means the next set of discs would need modding too. Swings and round-a-bouts I guess.
Fri 20 Jul 2012 @ 18:04 Edit this messageQuote this messagePMQuote this message
Anon
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Kooda, those are the same discs that I got from my local suppliers. If that price is for a pair that is good value! Mine were £63.00 for the pair(Transit 70-86 solid discs, National NBD028-) These are 270 diam.14.5mm thick (as CF). The height however is 71.0 whereas the CF is 59.7. This difference moves the centreline of the caliper back around 11mm which actually suits the Defender calipers I am proposing which will not clear the CF hubs with CF discs installed.

However I took the view not to machine the CF hubs just in case everything didn't work out and I would have to fit CF discs and calipers again. Instead I got the machine shop to bore out the centre of the Transit disc and the threaded fixing holes in the (plain holes on CF) and machine clearances for the Torx bolts, amazingly the PCD of the fixings is the same!!

This photo shows the mock up of the CF discs with 11mm spacers to replicate the depth of Transit discs and the Defender calipers bolted onto the steering arms which also have spacers between them and the uprights.



This photo is from another angle but shows the tight clearance between the Defender caliper and the CF hub.



I have just got parts back from the machine shop and sand-blasters so will assemble again for another dry run and take some photos. If everything works out I will probably get the hub machined to take Transit discs without mods and have holes drilled to allow bolts to screw into the Transit discs (some way off I hope)

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Fri 20 Jul 2012 @ 22:25 Edit this messageQuote this messagePMQuote this message
Anon
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Wow ! You guys are really getting to grips with this issue with some innovative solutions and I look forward to hearing the final outcomes so I can get my project under way.
In reply to an earlier post, the cost of £400 I quoted for the standard CF2 setup included a pair of nearly new reconditioned calipers Adrian Bailey was offering at the time.
Sat 21 Jul 2012 @ 10:02 Edit this messageQuote this messagePMQuote this message
Anon
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When I spoke to AB he said he couldn't supply a calliper rebuilt kit as there were far to many variants, hence only a rebuild service.

Nick, that's looking good.

I got thinking last night that it would be easier to mod the disc to suit. Yet more food for thought.

How is the clearance between the disc and the bolt heads that mount the steering arm to the upright?

I gather the defender callipers are Lookhead and the bolt spacing is the same? I'll check out the cost as it might be cheaper than having the Bedford ones refurbed.

Sat 21 Jul 2012 @ 10:43 Edit this messageQuote this messagePMQuote this message
Anon
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Just to whet your appetites........

Pics of the parts back from the sandblasters/powder coaters



And from the machine shop (transit Discs on left refaced CF on right)



Looking from the back you can see the bored out threadholes, the bored out centre, (well you could if you had a micrometer), but more to the point the clearance grooves for the CF torx bolts to fix the disc to the hub.



I wasn't going to bother with powdercoating until I did a deal with the guy over some Mini Cooper S parts I had.

Another picture of the calipers: Defender on the left CF on the right.



I will try and get another mock-up done this week and then bring together all the costs involved. Hopefully this may work out cheaper than the AB solution.

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Sun 22 Jul 2012 @ 17:01 Edit this messageQuote this messagePMQuote this message
Anon
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Ford Transit has similar looking brake calipers like CF2. Didn't they fit?
Thu 27 Sep 2012 @ 08:55 Edit this messageQuote this messagePMQuote this message
Anon
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Just discovered this thread, had no idea that disc front ends were that expensive: perhaps I should seriously think about putting mine under cover



Rae & Ann

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Thu 27 Sep 2012 @ 21:28 Edit this messageQuote this messagePMQuote this message
Anon
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szakal666 wrote:
Ford Transit has similar looking brake calipers like CF2. Didn't they fit?


I didn't actually look at Transit discs as someone had already done the homework on the LDV calipers fixed to CF hubs. It depends on the fixing centres I suppose?

Rae, yours should be fine staying outside as the backplates seem to have gone anyway!!

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Thu 27 Sep 2012 @ 23:18 Edit this messageQuote this messagePMQuote this message
Anon
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Hi Rae,

Are they CF2 discs? If so, why are they outside?

Martin
Thu 27 Sep 2012 @ 23:50 Edit this messageQuote this messagePMQuote this message
Anon
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leatherwalnut wrote:
Are they CF2 discs? If so, why are they outside?


Hello Martin,
Truthfully? I prefer drums. In fact, at the moment, I'm using 9 inch but the main reason is it makes it so much more easier cleaning the old Wolfies

Rae & Ann

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Fri 28 Sep 2012 @ 00:02 Edit this messageQuote this messagePMQuote this message
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