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Anon Deleted Posts : Location : Status : Offline |
Modern engine for CF ? Many purists will ex-communicate me for this (sounds painful!)- but has anyone out there experience of putting a modern fuel efficient petrol engine in a CF?The aim would be to roughly double fuel economy, get rid of overheating and oil leak problems, allow me to use my LPG conversion (possibly modified), and use either my existing GM 3 speed auto box or allow a new auto box to be fitted. Is this cloud cuckoo land or can anyone suggest a suitable engine and the likely costs involved ? ---------------------- |
 Mon 04 Jun 2012 @ 13:34
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Anon Deleted Posts : Location : Status : Offline |
Modern engine for Cf Hi Simon,this subject has crossed my mind many times over the years.Especialy when you take into consideration the costs involved of overhauling the origional power units that are/were fitted. the fuel running costs are very high for these engines compared to the more modern units.I have converted a few, both 2.3 slants and the 2.0l opel engines to LPG to make the running costs more bearable. Even so with the manual gearbox's returning around 16 to lower 20's to the gallon and the autoboxes 12/15mpg, even with lpg at 75pp liter it is still expensive. I know of a few owners that have spent many hundreds of pounds having there units even just partly overhauled as well as completely, where in hind site they would have been cheaper to have replaced it with a more modern fuel efficient power train. The most difficult part to overcome is, getting someone with the skills to modify and fit a replacement power pack. Nothing is impossible if you have the will and the tools to do the job. This sadly is getting more of a problem as your local garage doesn't want to know if they cant plug in a computer. I look forward to a very interesting debate on this subject. Regards. A Scot Lost in the Valley's |
Mon 04 Jun 2012 @ 16:35
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Anon Deleted Posts : Location : Status : Offline |
Theres a whole plethora of engines you can transplant into the beddy. The best person to ask would be Gethin. There was a forum for exactly this on this site, but some bright spark has removed it. ---------------------- |
Mon 04 Jun 2012 @ 19:18
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Anon Deleted Posts : Location : Status : Offline |
Thanks fellas - glad I'm not deemed completely certifiable ! Auldreekie has confirmed my experience that a bog standard straight into the carb LPG conversion yields very poor mpg on a Bedford - especially as mine IS an auto. And with petrol at over £8 a gallon it won't take all that long to pay for an engine swop either ! Though I am also experiencing the difficulty of finding anyone who is au fait with real vehicles these days. I had a tyre fitted today and the fitter didn't even know how to get the CF's hub cap off 
Hoping Gethin might be tempted to put in his two pennorth on this engine subject - though I've often wondered how he finds time to give so freely of his obvious expertise on here...and the same goes for the incomparable Phil Bradshaw of course. This MUST be the best such website anywhere ! |
Thu 07 Jun 2012 @ 20:12
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Anon Deleted Posts : Location : Status : Offline |
The transplant route has also interested me and a lot of engines can be persuaded to fit given the time and sufficient metal butchery and welding. It would seem the main issues revolve around the crossmember/sump relationship and the interference of the transplanted engine with the clutch location. If you fitted an auto box this may well be a way around the issue. There was an interesting thread started about 2 years ago with a Ford Scorpio 2.3 engine but this seemed to go cold so not sure of the conclusion. http://www.bedfordcf.co.uk/mboard/thread.php?id=8762 Rover V8's have often been transplanted into CF's but these are only 2 valves per cylinder and tend to be thirsty as well (ask any Range Rover owner). Vauxhall Redtop engines can be made to fit but these are getting a bit rare (and expensive). There is a website that has some interesting potential updates of the CF engine with modern fuel injection system and trigger wheel ignition. I think someone on here may have done some experimenting with trigger wheel ignition. http://homepages.nildram.co.uk/~lynsand/index.htm With a modern engine it seems to me that a donor vehicle is probably essential as you now need all the wiring, sensors, ECU and probably immobiliser for the thing to work properly. The idea of transplanting successfully but then not being able to get the damn thing to start because some sensor was missing doesn't even bear thinking about. (E.g. Golf Mk4 immobiliser is in the instrument cluster for God's sake!) My thoughts (parts permitting) would be to fit high compression pistons, rebuilt head, trigger wheel ignition and single point fuel injection with something like the Megasquirt ECU but the danger is you could end up spending a shed load of money, end up with a much more powerful engine but the same MPG! Anyhow, while my engine is running OK I am loath to change! 
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Thu 07 Jun 2012 @ 22:05
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Anon Deleted Posts : Location : Status : Offline |
http://www.bedfordcf.co.uk/mboard/forums.php?id=82, A link too the section referred too,and done by Gethin. |
Thu 07 Jun 2012 @ 22:27
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Anon Deleted Posts : Location : Status : Offline |
Thank you Nick and Alex - very useful information here. Looking at the engine transplant forum, it does appear that changing the cross member to a CF2 type would need to be a starting point to get round what Nick highlights as the main issue involving that component (allowing easier fitting of a greater range of engines.) I am going to look into sourcing a CF2 cross member and take it from there. |
Sat 09 Jun 2012 @ 11:32
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Anon Deleted Posts : Location : Status : Offline |
I am looking at a 2.0 or 2.2 16 valve Vauxhall engine/box from a Carlton or Omega. I'm told the automatic is extremely thirsty compared with the manual - does anyone know if this is true ? One thought - will I have to fit the catalytic converter and will the vehicle have to pass the relevant emissions test for the donor vehicle, or does the Bedford's original emission standard apply ? Also, does anyone know roughly how much I would pay for a CF2 crossmember ? All guidance gratefully received ! |
Sun 10 Jun 2012 @ 13:47
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Anon Deleted Posts : Location : Status : Offline |
I reckon it would be easier to fabricate new engine mountings on your origional front axle beam than to buy a cf2 axle. I don't think that the cat applies to the replacement engine, only to the vehicle, but then i could be wrong. One of the other alternative's is an engine from a Frontera which is from the same family. All auto's are more thirsty than the manuals, but the advantage of the newer auto boxes is that most have a four or even five speed box which gives you lower rev's in top. It is unfortunate that the manufacturers fitted low compression egines in the past so that owners could save a few pence by useing lower grade petrol, to the detriment of performance. This also applies to the opel 1979cc engine as fitted to the cf2, so to increase the power output would cost more than to replace with a car power pack. If all the stock car and hot rod guy's can fabricate all sorts, then i am sure it can be done with the right equipment. |
Sun 10 Jun 2012 @ 14:23
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Anon Deleted Posts : Location : Status : Offline |
I have just sold my Omega estate 2.2 automatic and the most mpg I managed to get overall was 23mpg. A few years ago I had an Omega estate 3.0 auto, and that also did around 23mpg. The Omega is a heavy old beast and the 2.2 engine struggled to give any performance, whereas the six cylinder 3.0 went like a rocket, as it would with 210bhp! Perhaps with a manual gearbox another few extra miles could be wrought from a gallon, but I think these engines are just not economical enough to warrant an engine change, but the six cylinder will certainly make an old Beddy move!! Martin |
Sun 10 Jun 2012 @ 15:21
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Anon Deleted Posts : Location : Status : Offline |
More good helpful advice - thanks guys. I am struggling to get 15 mpg so 23 sounds good to me ! Though maybe I need to explore other engines/transmissions for the sake of greater economy - but the choice is limited because most are not rear wheel drive. |
Sun 10 Jun 2012 @ 16:48
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Anon Deleted Posts : Location : Status : Offline |
With the physical size and weight of a Beddy, especially if fitted with a coachbuilt body, mpg is never going to be good with a petrol engine. It would seem that all modern campers and motorhomes are fitted with diesel engines, but not the old type diesels that were noisy and gutless, but direct injection electronicly controlled diesels with common rail technology with turbos and intercoolers. These engines are hi-tech, economical, complicated, expensive devices, and it would be a very clever and knowledgeable person who could do such a transplant. Regretably, I'm not one of these people, so I'm stuck with my Opel 2.0 litre petrol which although isn't very economical ( around 20mpg) at least with the help of learned members on this site, is straightforward to repair, and is most importantly for me, bereft of electronics and ECU's to go wrong. What I save on expensive diognostic requirements, which basically means an Expert with a laptop, I can spend on fuel. If I had wanted a hi-tech motorhome that did 30mpg plus, I would not have bought an old Beddy! But I can repair my Beddy, I haven't got a clue about modern vehicles and I wouldn't buy one even if I could afford to - which I can't! Martin |
Sun 10 Jun 2012 @ 19:13
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Anon Deleted Posts : Location : Status : Offline |
I too have a coach built model with an opel 2litre petrol engine and a 5 speed manual box. I bought this as an ongoing project (against she who must be obeyed's wishes). one of the first things i done was to convert it to LPG. So that i could afford to use it. Even the newer Diesel engines are not as economical as LPG. I too am on a very limited budget, hence the reason that i own a Bedford. I previously ran a coachbuilt, with a 2.3 slant and auto transmission. Before that a high roof model with the same powertrain. Both i converted to Lpg as i could not afford to run them on petrol. Prior to this i had a cf2 coachbuilt which was lpg converted when i bought it. This van is still going strong on lpg four years after i sold it. It all comes down to what you can afford. If you can do the work yourself or have a friend with the knowledge and inclination to help you then any convertion is possible! If you have to rely on a garage then then it will be as limited as you can afford. I am fortunate, in being a retired motor engineer, having the knowledge but not always the good health to do my own work, but will get there in the end. You know the old saying that with patience and perseverance you could s**g a hedgehog. Regards. A Scot Lost in the Valley's. |
Sun 10 Jun 2012 @ 20:59
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Anon Deleted Posts : Location : Status : Offline |
Thanks again for some very thoughtful replies which will help me steer through the obvious minefield I've gone striding into ! If it was not for the London low emission zone I would have gone for a diesel - lowering my carbon footprint by using less fuel - but the powers that be are forcing me to run petrol. My LPG conversion does indeed take the sting out of the costs quite a bit - but if I could get the mpg up from 11.9 to at least 20, even that would be a lot more affordable for me. I'm talking to the chap who does my servicing about doing the engine swop. He shoehorns all kinds of modern engines into minis and is a steel fabricator to boot. Will let you know how I get on. |
Tue 12 Jun 2012 @ 12:28
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Anon Deleted Posts : Location : Status : Offline |
I too was only getting around 12/13 mpg from my auto beddie, if i had been getting 20 + i would have been delighted. The LEZ makes it very difficult for people living within the zone and rules out older diesels.So a petrol engine that can give you twenty + with an LPG conversion looks very attractive. Ideally getting hold of a MOT failure donor vehicle is the way to go, where you can remove all that you need and send the rest for scrap, can be more economical than buying an engine and all the ancillery parts seperate. You are in the fortunate position of knowing someone who is a steel fabricator and has mechanical knowledge. Please keep us informed of your progress, as many of these projects fizzle out without further information being shared. Best of luck . |
Tue 12 Jun 2012 @ 21:44
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Anon Deleted Posts : Location : Status : Offline |
Thanks Auldreekie - I am sure you are right that a donor vehicle is the sensible route. One possible is a Ford Scorpio (a rear drive car)with the four cylinder DOHC 16 V 2.3 litre petrol engine and auto box. Depending who you believe, overall mpg is between 25 and 30 - though with the extra weight of the Bedford it's likely to be more like 22-25. Will certainly keep everyone posted on how I get on - though I'm going to research and plan over summer and do the work over the winter so I can use the van for the holidays. |
Thu 14 Jun 2012 @ 18:44
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Anon Deleted Posts : Location : Status : Offline |
I run my coach built CF350 on LPG, when on a good run towing a classic caravan with all the family food and beer for a week normaly get 13.5 mpg. I've always wanted to know the weight of my camper so yesterday I put some scrap metal in and went to the scrap yard, the tare weight on my camper was 2960kgs thats with only half a tank of LPG. So when I'm fully loaded going away for a week I must be very near the GVW of 3500. Dave ---------------------- |
Fri 15 Jun 2012 @ 08:18
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