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Anonymous
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Please Help!

ok ive been a bit of a berk and in my haste to sort out the vans breaks i removed the master cylinder circlip and fired all the insides across the room.

i have a new seals set but now have no idea of the correct order o way round the piston goes! not only that but i have an extra rubber in the kit that i didnt have on the cylinder.

its a lockheed master cylinder with a single piston and hydraulic outlet.
does anyone have a drawing of how i put this back together? the haynes manual only shows the twin outlet cylinder.

many thanks

Steve

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Sat 17 Aug 2013 @ 22:42 Edit this messageQuote this messagePMQuote this message
bluebedouin
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Not sure whether this will help.Lockheed MC pdf

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Sun 18 Aug 2013 @ 00:04 View bluebedouin   Email bluebedouin   Edit this messageQuote this messagePMQuote this message
Anonymous
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That was perfect!

i was almost right, just two shims the wrong way round


Steve
Sun 18 Aug 2013 @ 10:00 Edit this messageQuote this messagePMQuote this message
Anonymous
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I now have more problems
I have re-installed the master cylinder and i am now trying to bleed the system through. i started at the offside rear as per the Haynes manual.
i got nothing.
so i then took off the main pipe to the master cyl. and bled the cylinder. didnt get much air from that tho.
back to the rear and now i'm getting fluid with LOTS of air.
as i start to get less and less air i then went to the front nearside wheel.
The only way i can describe whats coming out is its like the head off of an old english ale. this wheel has been pumped and pumped but still the same.
mt son was watching the reservior as i was bleeding and he has not let the level drop below half way, but he has seen plenty of bubbles coming from the master cylinder and blowing into the reservior.

so far i have used a full litre of brake fluid but has much less out into the waste container. i cant see any leaks either. i am totally confused.

anyone got any ideas???

thanks

Steve
Sun 18 Aug 2013 @ 15:14 Edit this messageQuote this messagePMQuote this message
Gethin
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sounds like you have a problem with the mastercylinder if your getting air bubbles in there when your pumping.

try bleading the master again and fit a nipple in place of the metal pipe, if you dont get any air bubbles when you pump the pedal and it should be hard then its OK.

now refit the pipe back on and open the offside front bleed nipple and try gravity bleeding( means letting the fluid drain out on its own accord.)
if you get a nice air free fluid coming out then tighten up and go to near side front , again gravity feed this ,
lastly gravity feed the rear, you should have a decent pedal if this works,
you mite have to give each cylinder a pump or 2 to expel any trapped air though.

on another point what fluid was in the system and what you replacing it with.

Girling (red)and Lockheed (yellow) fluids arnt interchangeable and will cause jelly type fluid.


Sun 18 Aug 2013 @ 18:06 View Gethin   Email Gethin   Edit this messageQuote this messagePMQuote this message
Anonymous
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thanks for the reply Gethin,

I have re- blead the master and as you said put a bleed nipple where the pipe goes. it blead up easily and my assistant (wife) said the pedal went hard and couldnt press it.
re-connected the pipe and tried to gravity bleed osf wheel. nothing. no flow at all.
the assistant pumped and after a short while the fluid was clear, pedal went hard.
same for the nsf and then rear.
i then went and checked the pedal, although ok was far from perfect so i blead the system in the order of the haynes manual this time.
all ok for the nsr and nsf but the off side constantly had air. 5 reserviors of fluid.
i sealed up the bleed nipple, the pedal was very spongy and air was rising into the reservior.

think i need a new master cylinder?

Steve
Sun 18 Aug 2013 @ 19:41 Edit this messageQuote this messagePMQuote this message
Anonymous
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Brakes

Hi Steve,before you change the master cylinder,check all of the joint for tytness then check the rubber hoses for cracking.These are often the reason for air in the system.Cheers+Beers,Jim.

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Sun 18 Aug 2013 @ 20:01 Edit this messageQuote this messagePMQuote this message
Anonymous
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Update,

Still not got her bled yet!
But I think I may have found the problem, I am getting air bubbling up thru the reservoir and now can't bleed the master cyl. Properly.
Stripped everything down again and found some pitting on the cylinder around the reservoir seal.
I have cleaned it all back, found a new o ring, smeared a generous helping of gasket seal on the seal and bolted it all back on the van. I'll leave it overnight to cure and try to bleed it in the morning.
If this don't work now it'll have to be a new master.
Mon 26 Aug 2013 @ 02:07 Edit this messageQuote this messagePMQuote this message
Anonymous
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Ok,
After all the troubles I ended up getting a new master cylinder, all new flexi hoses, new rear wheel cylinders, 3 self bleed kits, a pressure bleed system and 12 litres of fluid. Guess what? On my trial run today I am back to the same as when I started!
The brakes now work though but only at the end of the pedal.
If I pump the pedal it's good but once released I have full travel.

I've poured the petrol, anyone got a match........?

Seriously tho, what am I missing?
Any ideas?
Sun 22 Sep 2013 @ 11:01 Edit this messageQuote this messagePMQuote this message
Bob Hillier
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Have you tried ADJUSTING the brakes? Sounds daft, but it does decrease the
amount of travel. Try adjusting the four wheels to lock up, and see if the pedal is locked as well, (should be)

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We don`t stop when we get old, but get old when we stop

Sun 22 Sep 2013 @ 19:14 View Bob Hillier   Email Bob Hillier   Edit this messageQuote this messagePMQuote this message
Anonymous
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I have adjusted the brakes correctly and still have too much pedal travel
Not tried adjusting to lock up though, gave up on the brakes and played with some rust instead.

Steve
Sun 22 Sep 2013 @ 21:22 Edit this messageQuote this messagePMQuote this message
Anonymous
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In theory.....

You know the master cylinder is okay as you have replaced it with no change to the concern. If the brakes are correctly adjusted and you are still getting excessive travel on the pedal then there is air ingress into the hydraulic system somewhere.

Before the trial run was the pedal hard? It may be worth re checking the brake shoe adjustment, it is possible the shoes were not sitting where they want to be until you road tested the vehicle.

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Mon 23 Sep 2013 @ 08:21 Edit this messageQuote this messagePMQuote this message
Anonymous
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Thanks for your replies

I will readjust the shoes again tonight and give her a try, if that fails I will adjust until locked to see if I get a good pedal.

Hopefully my next post will be a happy one!
Mon 23 Sep 2013 @ 11:09 Edit this messageQuote this messagePMQuote this message
Anonymous
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Thanks for your replies

I will readjust the shoes again tonight and give her a try, if that fails I will adjust until locked to see if I get a good pedal.

Hopefully my next post will be a happy one!
Mon 23 Sep 2013 @ 11:11 Edit this messageQuote this messagePMQuote this message
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